they're arguing over rates or deductions, which makes no sense. i mean, it's like you want to go on a trip. we decide we're going on a trip together. we're going to argue about whether we're taking a bus or a train. just figure out how much money you want from revenue, figure out who you're going to get it from, figure out how you're going to protect people, then figure out the formulas. >> and the white house wants the money to come from a specific place. he doesn't necessarily want $1.6 trillion clean. he wants it to come from higher tax rates. >> and i think it's fine say where you want to get the $1.6 trillion or $800 billion from. you ought to just call -- i want to get it from people who make more than $250,000 as opposed to trying to lock people into a formula. what you really need is money. >> you put it so simply, as if it's easy. i guess it is. i don't know why they're having such a difficult time with that. let me get your take on what senator jim demint said. he said house speaker john boehner's plan, which of course is raising $800 bi